This topic contains 16 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Aly 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #2684

    freddo
    Participant

    Doomed, it sounds rather comedic, however the view expressed here https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention chimes with my thoughts.

    I doubt it will impact me much, 55 and living in Northern Europe. However people distant in space, such as Poor Africans and in time, such as my Grandchildren and possibly my children, well they are doomed Is there anything I can do? Should I even care?

  • #2685

    sammo
    Participant

    I doubt it will impact me much, 55 and living in Northern Europe. However people distant in space, such as Poor Africans and in time, such as my Grandchildren and possibly my children, well they are doomed Is there anything I can do? Should I even care?

    Yes. First and foremost elect people serious about tackling it, accept that will cost you and that we will have to lead ahead of others for some time accepting the cost of that.

  • #2686

    neb
    Participant

    Is there anything I can do? Should I even care?

    Well done on highlighting the key issue with climate change mitigation. People take a “not in my lifetime, IDGAF” approach, or the “well I’m only one person in 7 billion, does it matter?”. Clearly all action needs to begin with the individual – either personal changes or holding corporations and governments to account through purchasing choices and voting choices.

    Some simple steps you can take, sort of in order of impact (off the top of my head):

    1. Reduce (or ideally stop) your meat consumption

    2. Fly less

    3. Drive less (use public transport, bike or walk as much as possible)

    4. Reduce (or ideally stop) your dairy consumption

    5. Insulate and increase heat retention of your house

    6. Switch to a “green” energy provider

    7. Buy as much locally produced food as possible

    • #2687

      Steve
      Participant

      A good list, but in order of impact you missed:

      -2 Don’t breed. Fallback – breed little and late in life.

      -1 Stop living.

      (-2 is I think an all together better way of doing things.)

    • #2689

      Jethro
      Participant

      Out of interest, why would you consider the demise of the Human race a bad thing. Would it possibly be better in the long term for planet earth ?
      Or as ultimatley we are just part of a long term chemical experiment heading towards a firey demise, does it matter.
      Its very easy to see all this from an Anthropogenic view point, however I would guess as far as trees and slugs are concerened, the sooner we are gone, the better.

      • #2690

        neb
        Participant

        Does anything matter in the grand scheme? Absolutely not. But as a member of the human race and therefore an inherently a selfish being, I’d quite like the human race to not be totally destroyed. With regards to the planet, it makes no difference to it if rapid climatic change occurs – life will adapt and adjust accordingly, but that will certainly be bad news for humans as is. Problem is life for us will change – water/food struggles etc., and it would be far easier to work to prevent this rather than mitigate consequences (I’m far from perfect, a few simple calculators would suggest my personal footprint is 2-4 tonnes/annum). Totally agree with your last point, but of course its difficult to not see beyond the anthropogenic viewpoint.

      • #2691

        freddo
        Participant

        IMO, it is not the end of the human race as such which is worrying but the huge suffering in famine and wars which will precede it. If we could all just be instantly snuffed (maybe by a nearby supernova) with no warning then it would be “fine”.

      • #2692

        dantheman
        Participant

        Everything on earth is eventually going to die.  Most of it lives in a state of disease, hunger and fear and did long before monkeys came on to the scene.  Absolutely all life on the planet will be burnt off – along with the atmosphere and the oceans as our sun goes nova.  There will be nothing left to remember any of this life by.  It will have had no effect on the universe.  All of it – dead and gone and forgotten.
        Humans – we can change that.  Nothing else can.  We can take some of the wealth of life with us and away from a pointless remembrance free death by fire.
        Sure, we could all die but given the brutality of nature and of the species it fosters, whatever – if anything – replaces us as a technological civilisation is going to be no better.
        What is the point of life?  To die?  Until humans that is all life on this planet ever did.  We still die but our knowledge lives on.  
        I cant abide all this whiney “the planet would be better off without us” crap. Try living as a rabbit in the wild for a week and see what you think… 

      • #2728

        Div
        Participant

        I think anything that accelerates the demise of the human race is a very good thing. I really do. We’re a bunch of parasites.

        • #2729

          Aly
          Participant

          @div I disagree. The human brain is the is the most complex and extraordinary thing that has ever evolved on earth and, for all we know, in the whole universe – a conscious organ capable of a deep understanding of the universe in which it has evolved. It makes us the only animal capable of seeing into the future and moulding it, possibly for the better, perhaps to avert it’s own extinction. If we became extinct there might never again anywhere be an Einstein or a Shakespeare or a Mozart. I think that would be a shame.

        • #2730

          Div
          Participant

          @aly There’d possibly be nothing/nobody around the notice the absence, though, can something not existing be a shame if there’s nothing/nobody aware of it’s absence?

          I understand that it’s sad for humans, but it perhaps doesn’t matter if there’s no awareness of the absence of humans?

          It ties in with not minding about things once we’re dead…

        • #2731

          Aly
          Participant

          @div Yes, so I might as well just go and buy yet another Ryanair flight to go bolt clipping without a second thought because I’m going to be dead when the global warming shit really hits the fan, or, if that is averted, when the next Einstein unifies quantum mechanics with gravity.

          Actually, I suspect what will happen is that in about a hundred years, when that global warming shit really hits the fan and starts to seriously threaten the rich north, we’ll have the technology to carry out global engineering which will avert complete catastrophe and allow civilisation to continue in a habitable albeit somewhat altered world.

    • #2727

      gaz
      Participant

      It’s an interesting one, how much impact the meat and dairy industry contribute to climate change, compared to transport, with meat and dairy being just a little bit more damaging than transport. I think the best thing may be to give people the facts, so that each individual can find their own approach. I do like my meat and dairy (in reduced amounts since I became more aware of the impact), where as it’s easier for me to not fly at all. For other people, it’s easier to go vegan and to fly on holiday somewhere nice once a year instead. If we’re the generation which needs to make certain sacrifices to benefit later ones, I think that’s fair enough. We haven’t chosen to be the one to have to, but later ones won’t have chosen to be more affected by the consequences of our inaction. If one takes a broader view, our lives are much cushier than previous generations even with certain personal compromises taken towards reducing our impact upon the planet.

  • #2688

    daveb
    Participant

    I disagree with the opening quote. There are definitely technological means to forcibly and rapidly cool the planet – if it comes to that. I sometimes cynically wonder if a certain nation with their eyes on Africa’s resources wouldn’t want to hold of on this for a while however.

    More worrying to me is the acidification of the oceans and the knock on consequences for ecosystems. Although technological means to do atmospheric carbon capture are improving which eventually – to late? – addresses this.

  • #2724

    dommy
    Participant

    I’ve been voting Green for decades now. Still little effect…

    I look at young people and am glad I do not have to grow up into their world.

    • #2725

      goon
      Participant

      Interesting point. Its undeniable the Greens, if given a modicum of power, would implement pretty drastic change towards a better environment.

      Their election would also likely have profound impacts on GDP growth etc.

      Which raises the point how people here, and everywhere, like to talk about doing good for the environment. But no-one wants to pay the cost. The vegans tell everyone to stop eating meat, but still drive around in their polluting VW campers. The couple who dispense with the international holiday still want the big house, latest phones and 3 kids. And the villager who foregoes the latest gadgets still voted against electoral reform, as they don’t want pesky minor parties (like the Greens) getting in.

      I’ve increasingly come to the view it is indeed pointless making seriously life-limiting unilateral change and am putting my faith in tech. Electric cars and a re-evaluation of nuclear as a backup to sustainables will likely achieve more than everyone in the country doing double what they are even willing to.

  • #2726

    Ian
    Participant

    It’s definitely worth caring. When you look at the world we have now, the bits of nature and wilderness we do have – we are eternally grateful that our ancestors fought very hard for their protection. The scale of deforestation in many nations is 90% or so (sometimes greater, sometimes less). But that bit that was saved, we are grateful for. The same thing is repeating – we will lose again, approximately 90% of what’s left (that means we have 1% remaining of what we once had, for those counting). But the future generations will appreciate all the hard work we can do. Of course they will be angry still – just as we sometimes are at the generations before us, for robbing us of the great forests and species which have gone extinct. Perhaps if you are unfamiliar with what has been lost, you should read about it. The one difference now, is that our generation is the first to truly, without a doubt, know that nature is not infinite. We have no excuse for not doing our utmost to provide some tiny remnant of nature’s beauty for the future generations, just as the previous generations did for us.

    I watched this video recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYuc-mHA9c
    And I was struck by a peculiar feeling. How smart we think we are in the modern world – so much better than the primitives, who spent their time living in a garden of Eden, suffused with the sounds of happy birds. Have we really improved upon what they had? For all the destruction – did we become much happier? Could there not have been some happy medium – where we have advanced, beneficial technology and still spend most of our time in nature?

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